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#106
Salam Allaykum Wr Wb dear Ansar Allah,

The office and its followers stated a number of arguments against the Imam's absolute silence and occultation and other related points. You can find their objection statement in the below link:
http://www.eramahdi.net/2015/06/11/for- ... cultation/

The following is our response to them:

First refutation: The Absence of the Qaim AS:

The office followers have attempted to refute one of the hadiths that we use to prove that Imam Ahmed Al-Hassan (a.s.) was in occultation and did not communicate with the Ansar during it. And it is the following Hadith:

Abdulrahman ibn Abi Layla-Ali(a.s)said:"I was with the Prophet in the house of Um Salama..until he says(a.s):"The messenger of Allah (saw) turned towards me and he said while he raised his voice:"Beware when the fifth of the seventh of my sons is lost. .Ali(a.s)said:"O Messenger of Allah,what will this Gaiba(occultation) be? He said: Silence until Allah permits his emergence." Mujam Almawthoo'i li'ahadeeth Imam Al Mahdi p.163 Bihar v.36 p.335

في حديث طويل قال فيه بعد أن عدد الأئمة من أهل بيته ثم يغيب عنهم إمامهم ما شاء الله، ويكون له غيبتان إحداهما أطول من الأخرى. ثم التفت إلينا رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله فقال رافعا صوته: الحذر إذا فقد الخامس من ولد السابع من ولدي، قال علي: فقلت: يا رسول الله فما تكون هذه الغيبة؟ قال: أصبت (الصمت) حتى يأذن الله له بالخروج.

They claim that in the hadith’s primary source the word “silence” is not mentioned, but rather three other words instead which are “Yasseer” (يصير) meaning “it will happen”, and “Esber” (اصبر) meaning “be patient”, and “Asabt” (أصبت) meaning “[you are] correct”.
Now let us put these three alternative words into the context of the narration and see if they fit:

So Imam Ali as asks the Messenger of Allah swt what kind of Ghaiba (absence) will it be or what will this absence be. In the Prophet’s (sawas) answer to Imam Ali (as) if we use the first alternative word which is “Yasseer” or “it will happen”, it will not make sense that the Prophet sawas answers him that way, because Imam Ali (as) did not ask “O Messenger of Allah swt, will it happen?”, rather he (as) asked “...what will this Ghaiba (occultation) be?”. So the word in this context does not make sense.
Similarly if we use the word “Asabt”, meaning “correct”, or “you are correct”, it will not make sense AT ALL in that context, because it will be like this:
“Ali(a.s)said:"O Messenger of Allah,what will this Ghaiba(occultation) be? He said: “You are correct” or “Correct” until Allah permits his emergence.” It does not fit in this context AT ALL, and doesn’t make sense neither in Arabic nor in English. So there must be a mistake!!
There is another narration, however with the word “patience”, and it is as follows:
AbdelRahman ibn Abi Layla said: Ali a.s. said: "I was with the Prophet sawas in the house of Umm Salama...[until he said]..then he a.s. said: "Then the Messenger of Allah sawas turned to us raising his voice and said: "Be cautious! Be cautious! When the fifth from the seventh of my sons is lost!" So Ali a.s. said: "O Messenger of Allah! What will his condition be in this absence!" So he said: "He will be patient, until Allah gives him permission to come out" - Bihar AlAnwar V.36 P335, and V.52 P.380

Imam Ahmed Alhassan a.s. said in the statement of Bara'a (statement of innocence) 13th of Rajab, which was released on 13th of Jamadi AlThani 1425 A.H. "And I say to you, what do I have to do with a kingship/rulership which does not last! But I am commanded, and I will be patient, like Imam Ali a.s. was patient, until The Abundantly Merciful (Al-Rahman) gives permission in my matter"

Now we can see that the version with the word الصمت” or “Silence” is the only one that makes sense 100% and perfectly fits the context, where the Prophet sawas answers Imam Ali’s (as) question and tells him that the Ghaiba/occultation will be SILENCE.
Alright, in case the office followers still reject the word “Silence”, are there any other narrations that state that the Ghaiba/absence will be silent with no communication with the Ansar? YES there is! Take a look at the following narrations:

The Messenger of Allah sawas said: “O Ali, you are from me and I am from you, and you are my brother and vizier, so if i die there will appear to you the hatred in the chests of the people. And there will be after me a silent disastrous Fitna, every Walijah and Bitana (every hypocrite) will fall in it. And that is when your shia lose the fifth from the seventh of your sons. The inhabitants of the heavens and the earth will grieve for his loss! How many believing men and women will be grievous and anxious and confused when he is lost! – Bihar al anwar v26 p350, Ghayat Al Maram v1 p212
قال رسول الله (ص) لعلي (ع): (ياعلي أنت مني وأنا منك وأنت أخي ووزيري، فإذا مت ظهرت لك ضغائن في صدور قوم، وسيكون فتنة صيلم صماء يسقط منها كل وليجة وبطانة، وذلك عند فقدان شيعتك الخامس من ولد السابع من ولدك يحزن لفقده أهل الأرض والسماء فكم من مؤمن متلهف متأسف حيران عند فقده). بحار الأنوار ج36 ص338


The meaning of Walijah in the Arabic dictionaries is "the intimate [friend or close one] to the human being and his special ones, or the ones who the human being depend on from other than his family, or he is from the companions of the secret". And the meaning of Bitana in the Arabic dictionaries: (the dependents and special ones and the people whom he trusts, the ones whom surrounds him and accompany him, and they are close to him and he does not hide a secret from them {O you who have believed, do not take as Bitana (intimates) those other than yourselves} [Holy Qur'an 3:118])

Al-Asbagh ibn Nabata said: I went to the commander of the believers pbuh so I found him drawing lines in the earth, so I said to him: O Commander of the believers, why do I see you contemplating and drawing lines in the earth? Do you desire it? So he said: “By Allah, I have never desired it nor have i ever desired the world, but I was thinking about a man who will be born from the eleventh from my sons, he is the Mahdi who will fill it with justice and equity as it was filled with oppression and injustice. There will be a confusion and an absence for him, people will go astray in it, and some others will be guided in it” So I said? So how long will the confusion and absence be? So he pbuh said: “six days, or six months, or six years” – Ghaybat AlToosi p 165 hadith 127

عن الأصبغ بن نباتة قال: (أتيت أمير المؤمنين (عليه السلام) فوجدته متفكراً ينكت في الأرض، فقلت: ما لي أراك متفكراً تنكت في الأرض، أرغبة منك فيها؟ فقال: لا والله ما رغبت فيها ولا في الدنيا يوماً قط ولكني فكرت في مولود يكون من ظهر الحادي عشر من ولدي هو المهدي الذي يملأ الأرض عدلاً وقسطاً كما ملئت جوراً وظلماً، تكون له (((غيبة وحيرة)))، يضل فيها أقوام ويهتدي فيها آخرون. فقلت: وكم تكون تلك الحيرة والغيبة؟ قال: ستة أيام أو ستة أشهر أو ست سنين!!! فقلت: وإن هذا لكائن؟ فقال: نعم، كما أنه مخلوق وأنى لك بهذا الأمر ياأصبغ، أولئك خيار هذه الأمة مع أبرار هذه العترة. فقلت: ثم ما يكون بعد ذلك؟ فقال: ثم يفعل الله ما يشاء، فإن له بداءات وإرادات وغايات ونهايات).

المصادر: الغيبة / الطوسي ص165 وص336 , بشارة الإسلام ص60 , كمال الدين وتمام النعمة ص

Sa'eed ibn Jubayr said: I heard the master of worshippers Ali son of Alhussein a.s. saying: "The Qa'im from us has sunnahs from the Prophets:...As for the sunnah from Moses, it is fear and absence"
Bihar AlAnwar V.52 P.217, Kamalul Din waTamamul N'ima P.322 and P.577, Kashf AlGhumma V.3 P.329


The one meant here is the Qa'im of the Family of Muhammad Imam Ahmed Alhassan a.s., and he is the fifth from the seventh of the sons of The Commander of The Believers a.s., and the disastrous silent fitna takes place when he is lost meaning in his absence which lasts for six years maximum as in the apparent of the narration, and this silent disastrous fitna means the test and the sifting and the classifying, in which ever Walijah and Bitana fall, meaning the special ones of the Ansar and their leaders and those who met the Qa'im of the Family of Muhammad a.s. Imam Ahmed Alhassan a.s. and took from him a lot of knowledge and secrets which no one knows except them. So if the absence, as you claim, will only be that the Imam (as) is hiding, but still communicates with his Ansar and clarifies everything for them, why then would there be confusion and a “silent disastrous fitna”?

So we understand from the above narrations that the Qa'im a.s. will be fearful and vigilant, and he will be in an absence, and in this absence the companions of the Qa'im a.s. and his Shia and the ones who believe in him will be in a confusion and in a silent disastrous Fitna after he goes to this absence, and many of them will fall.

Second refutation:

In their document, the office supporters claim that Imam AlMahdi (as) has always been in in contact with his shia in both the minor and major occultation and they use the following two narrations to prove it and claim the Imam Ahmed AlHassan (a.s.) cannot enter into absence and has to always be in contact with his Ansar, or else he would not be fulfilling his duty: “Keeping in mind of the reason Al Yamani is sent, which is to prepare humanity for the arrival of Al Mahdi, it is imperative and obligatory for him to always be in contact with his supporters. Otherwise, it will be a total useless if a messenger cannot send the messages.”
Here is the narrations they use:


Jabir narrates from Abi Jaa’far (PBUH): Jabir says: I asked him (PBUH) about this verse: {And for every nation is a messenger. So when their messenger comes, it will be judged between them in justice, and they will not be wronged} [Surah 10:47]. He (PBUH) said: (Its inner /esoteric interpretation is that for every century of this nation there shall be a messenger from the family of Muhammad who will come out to them in their century. and they are the preferred ones and they are the messengers. And as for the saying of Allah, {So when their messenger comes it will be judged between them in justice} its meaning is that the messengers judge with justice and they do not oppress/do injustice as Allah said) – Tafsir Al-‘Ayashi, volume 2, page 123. Hadith 23, and Al Majlisi narrated it in Al-Bihar

We all know that in in Imam AlMahdi’s minor occultation he had four ambassadors through whom he communicated with his Shia, meaning not even directly, but through the 4 of them, and that in his major occultation and until he met his son Imam Ahmed Al-Hassan (a.s.) he was in complete absence.

And we have already proven in the sections above and through several narrations that Imam Ahmed AlHassan (a.s.) will enter into absence/occultation and that this is an evident matter that the Imams (pbut) have stressed on.
So in response to the above narration that they use, we could also argue that between Imam Almahdi’s major occultation and the start of Imam Ahmed Alhassan’s call we had no messenger. But we also know from the AhlulBayt (a.s.) that Imam AlMahdi’s absence from us and his occultation was a punishment for us, so it was meant to be that we remain without a messenger in and for a certain time.


Third refutation: Who Will Issue The Call If Sufyani Arises?

Since January 23rd, 2015 Imam Ahmed Alhassan (a.s.) has come out of Ghaiba/occultation after it lasted six years as the narrations stated. We never said that the Imam (a.s.) is still in occultation, rather he is out of it now with his father Imam Almahdi (a.s.) and when the time comes he (a.s.) will inform us about the rise of the Sufyani.

Also, you mentioned a hadith here that basically supports our claim and goes against yours:
Narrated from Hathlam son of Basheer I said to Ali son of Alhussein(a.s)describe to me the emergence of the Mahdi and tell me about its details and signs,he said:"Before his emergence is the emergence of a man his name is Awf AlSilmy in the land of AlJizeera(Iraq),his home will be in Tikreet and his killing will be at the mosque of Damascus and then its the emergence of Shuaib son of Saleh from Samarqand and then the Sufyani the cursed one will emerge from Wadi AlYabees and he is the son of Utba son of Abi Sufyan, if the Sufyani appeared the Mahdi would disappear and then he shall emerge after that" Bihar v.52 p.213

This narration states that the Mahdi would disappear, however you misinterpreted this narration by saying: “Above hadith clearly shows that when the Sufyani emerged, the Mahdi is already there, and afterwards disappears. Of course the Mahdi needed to be there, as he is the one who can identify and issue the call to fight Sufyani.”

A few mistakes here:
First of all, the narration does not say if the Sufyani emerges, rather it is says “If the Sufyani APPEARED…”
Second, the Mahdi mentioned here is not Imam Almahdi (a.s.) but Imam Ahmed AlHassan (a.s.), because we know that Imam Al-Mahdi (a.s.) has already come out of his major occultation and will not go into another one again. Rather the one who will disappear and will be absent is Imam Ahmed Al-Hassan (a.s.) who was already there, but disappeared for six years, and has come out of his absence now and will inshaAllah identify and clarify to us the issue of the Sufyani when the time comes.

Forth refutation: Taking Rulings From Al Qaim Before His Rise

Ali son of Muhammad Raf'a from Ali son of Abi Hamza from Abi Baser he said: I said to Abi Abdullah pbuh: May I be your ransom when is the Faraj? He said: The Riser is an Imam son of Imam THEY TAKE THE HALAL AND HARAM FROM HIM BEFORE HE RISES. I said: May Allah reform your condition if the people missed their Imam from who do they take? He said: If that happened, love whom you used to love and wait for the Faraj(relief), how fast will it come to you." V.3 P.417 Mujam Ahadeeth AlImam AlMahdy

Again, in response to this narration, the Black Banners never claimed that the Imam (a.s.) has risen, and thus we take the Halal and Haram from him (a.s.) now after he (a.s.) come out of his absence and from his teachings before 2008.

I also do not understand how you interpreted the part “love whom you used to love” to be about Nathim Aluqaily, using the statement of Ifham as a proof when we have proven from above that the first ones who would fall during the Fitna and who would fight the Imam (a.s.) and turn against him (a.s.) are the seemingly close and special ones to him (a.s.).
This argument is actually too comical and needs no further refutation from us.

Fifth Refutation: Know The Owner Of The Facebook Account Through His Knowledge

Actually, if anything this facebook account and the latest posts ultimately prove that it cannot be from an Imam (a.s.) and contradicts his knowledge and his principles and core message.
The cooperation with the tyrants, the filthy tongue, the inappropriate words, the bad temper, the lack of tranquility and mercy, and the blocking and deleting of comments, the refraining from sending peace and blessings upon Muhamed and the Family of Muhamed in ALL of the posts prove that it is not the real Imam (a.s.).
So yes, we could actually your argument and the facebook posts to strongly prove that it cannot be the Imam (a.s.).
As for the rest of what you call knowledge on facebook, the Samiris took a lot from the knowledge of the Imam (a.s.) and his teachings and were very close to him (a.s.) before his absence.

Last refutation: Al Qaim Will Be In Contact With His Supporter Through The Internet

Aba Abdullah pbuh said: When our Qaem rises, Allah will extend for our Shia their hearing and sight until they do not see between them and between the Qaem a mail. He speaks to them and they hear and see him while he is in his place. Muntakhab AlAthar p.483 Bihar Al Anwar v.52 pg.336

سمعت أبا عبد الله (ع) يقول: إن قائمنا إذا قام مد الله لشيعتنا في أسماعهم وأبصارهم حتى لا يرون بينهم وبين القائم بريد يكلمهم فيسمعون وينظرون إليه وهو في مكانه. وروى الصافي أيضاً

Yes. As Aba Abdullah a.s said, WHEN QAIM A.S RISES, he will be in contact through the medium described in the narration.
So, did Ahmed a.s rise during his absence from 2008 until this day? No. And the Black Banners did not claim so. So it obvious that you have been refuted yourselves by putting above hadith which indicates rising, not appearance! SO it is clear that Imam Ahmed a.s hasn’t risen yet and the office members are the deceivers and liars!
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