Here is a section for debates. Here you can discuss and debate topics within Islam and between Islam and other religions.
#61840
salaam alaykum, i am not from the ansar group, hence maybe is why im able to speak up, question if it is my ignorance, i shouldnt be made to fear anyone but Allaah....im not trying to discredit anyone...just a simple soul...trying to understand, and i hope someone can correct my mistakes,if by Allaah they are ..is that the pattern of suggestion and trying to convince others to accept, and not to reject anything that may seem unislamic to the people of ansar will be in question and thier faith will be tested..over all this is the summary ...using the quranic ayats and some hadiths to power the conceivability of accepting the mahdi, and for that matter whoever that maybe, few questions please..?

1. if the mahdi does exist, ...first if anyone can please show where Allaah speaks off the coming of the mahdi a.s, thats out of respect if they do exist, just like the gog and mogog, is clear in the quran as it is an event that will effect many, hence why the same position of importance is not given to this great event, why are not the people warned of its coming or given good news depending ofcourse which side of belief one is standing on..

2. So expanding on that specific point - which is how the Qa'im (a.s) will say and do things which can not be handled by even some of the 313 - I thought to share with you words from the Yamani (a.s) about how the Jurisprudence of the Qa'im (a.s) will be very new and very strange that a lot of people - among which are people who fought next to him and were from his army - will doubt him.
what suffices to say that this order of fear can not be taken out of context another who wishes to be seen as mahdi?..that one will be left without the protection of the Quran, The Quran does not speak of any other coming after the prophet with a new religion...what im trying to say for example if an enemy of islam, and lets use obama for example to give a better perspective.....and if he came out and said all this and that there will be people fearing him due to him practicing or bringing forth a new ideolgoy and to just follow him without questioning his authority if especially it was going against the Quran....[asthaghfarullah] what have we to cling on as truth??? other then the Quran..????

3. "And Allah the Exalted said while addressing Solomon (a.s) {This is our bestowal, so give or withhold as you wish wihout account} [Surat Sad 38:39]. And the Qa’im (a.s) is Solomon of the Family of Muhammad (a.s), so the matter is up to him, he rules by whatever he wills, by that which Allah (swt) has taught him of His knowledge. And in the tradition from Al-Baqir (a.s): (The Qa’im will rule with rulings which will be denied by some of his companions who fought with the sword with him, and it is the ruling of Adam (a.s), so he will bring them forth and strike their necks, then he will rule with the second one, so it will be denied by other people who fought with the sword with him, and it is the ruling of David (a.s), so he will bring them forth and strike their necks, then he will rule with the third one, so it will be denied by other people who fought with the sword with him, and it is the ruling of Abraham (a.s), so he will bring them forth and strike their necks, then he will rule with the forth one, and it is the ruling of Muhammad (sawas), so no one will deny it). Bihar alAnwar volume 52 Page 389" so give or withhold as you wish without account, does that give means to anyone to do what they wish to do, and they wont be able to be held accountable for it...its alittle too dangerous for me playing with words..becauses i bleive all these ayats are steering people to have to accept, but we shouldnt be taking things out of context because that is what has been going on, and we should look at our current situation....each leader holds such thoughts they can not be held accountable... with the prophet soloman Allaah gave him the trust very openly to use his gifts that Allaah bestowed with mercy...

4. "...however the Qa'im (a.s) works by this abrogated verse, just as it has been narrated in the traditions of Ahlul Bayt (a.s), that he will kill a man who fought with the sword between his hands, so he will tell the people lay him down and strike his neck, even though in the apparent he did not do anything opposing the juriprudence or anything by which he would deserve to be killed, but the Qa'im (a.s) judges this man according to what is in his self, for Al-Sadiq (a.s) said: (There shall be a man close to the Qa'im a.s whom he commands and forbids, then he shall say turn him around, so they will turn him around towards him, so he will command that his neck be stricken, there will not remain anyone except that they will be fearful of him)
And Al-Baqir (a.s) said: (Verily he was named Al-Mahdi (the guided one) because he guides to a matter that has been hidden, so much so that he will send to a man to be killed [even though] the people did not know any sin for this man)"
that is going to be a very tall order, and i'm aware of the story of Moses and the companion, and that was a heavy test for a prophet let alone mere men, ..and again this is what the enemies of islam are doing....again..what im trying to say...what reassurance are the people of Allaah being given...but thoughts to accept such things that will end with their deaths if they question...Quran is the only thing i hold dear to, because through that i come back to when i err.. to give me confirmation,affirmation, guidance etc...what value will the Quran hold??? anyone can use any of this information and can be very dangerous when fallen into the wrong ...

i have no fear of man where my faith is concerned..because it will attach it self to the only thing its know..trust Allaah..and that is what i will continue to do..but i felt for others who may have been sitting reading this and questioning within thier own soul, but feeling ashamed to even question because of looking like a shumack..lol..and i dont mind...as i have nothing to loose but my faith..that is my reason for living..
#61854
Wa'laikum assalam waRahmtullah waBarakatuh

In the Name of Allah, The Abundantly Merciful, The Intensely Merciful,
All praises belong to Allah the Lord of the Worlds
May Allah send His prayers upon Muhammad and the Family of Muhammad the Imams and the Mahdis.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read the post and comment and ask questions, for I personally through asking questions have reached the truth and have been guided to the Ahlul Bayt (a.s). So before I begin answering you inshaAllah, I (and I seek refuge from the "I") ask Allah swt to make these questions of yours a way to seek guidance and to seek the truth, and not make them a way to be stubborn or offensive against the truth. InshaAllah I will try my best to answer every question you asked. And as you said, you do not fear man but you only fear Allah, and that's actually what Imam Ahmed Alhasan (a.s) asked us to be like, he said: "O believers, fear Allah who is capable of everything, and do not fear the one who is incapable of everything, rather no one is capable of anything except by the power, strength, and will of Allah The Glorious. You are walking in this world, and everyone who walks must arrive, so beware of making your arrival be to hell fire, and work so that your return be to Paradise" and he also said: "Do not fear those who kill the body, but fear The One who can make both the body and the spirit perish in Hell Fire".

InshaAllah in the next few hours I will answer all your questions, and I apologize for the delay.

And peace, mercy, and blessings of Allah be upon you.
Last edited by Norhan El Kirsh on Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#61859
Assalamu alaykum waRahmtullah waBarakatuh

In the Name of Allah, The Abundantly Merciful, The Intensely Merciful,
All praises belong to Allah the Lord of the Worlds
May Allah send His prayers upon Muhammad and the Family of Muhammad the Imams and the Mahdis.

You said:
"1. if the mahdi does exist, ...first if anyone can please show where Allaah speaks off the coming of the mahdi a.s, thats out of respect if they do exist, just like the gog and mogog, is clear in the quran as it is an event that will effect many, hence why the same position of importance is not given to this great event, why are not the people warned of its coming or given good news depending ofcourse which side of belief one is standing on.."


Point 1: Allah swt said: {Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth praises Allah, the King, the Holy, the Exalted in Might, the Wise. It is He who has sent among the Ummiyeen a messenger from themselves reciting to them His verses and purifying them and teaching them the Book and Wisdom, although they were before in clear misguidance. And to others from them when they come after them. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise. That is the favor of Allah, which He gives to whom He wills, and Allah is the possessor of the great favor.} [Surat Al-Jumua (Friday) 62:1-4]

This means that when "others come after them", Allah will send among them a messenger from them reciting to them His verses and teaching them the Book and Wisdom.
It definitely cannot be that Muhammad pbuhap is also the one who recites to the others who come after his return to Allah. Therefore there must be a messenger, and also among the Ummiyeen, meaning in Umm Al-Qura (Mother of the Villages) of his time *. And he [this messenger] possesses the following attributes: he recites the verses and purifies people, meaning in order for them to look into the Kingdom of Heavens, and he teaches them the Book and Wisdom.

* Umm Al-Qura: The village around which all other villages center, and at the time of Prophet Muhammad pbuhap, it was Mecca. And today it is Al-Najaf in Iraq, where Imam Ahmed Alhasan a.s comes from

Point 2: Allah swt said, {Then watch for the Day when the sky will bring a visible smoke * Covering the people; this is a painful torment * [They will say], “Our Lord, remove from us the torment; indeed, we are believers.” * How will there be for them a reminder? And there had come to them a clear messenger. * Then they turned away from him and said, “[He was] taught [and is] a madman.” * Indeed, We will remove the torment for a little. Indeed, you will return. * The Day We will strike with the major assault, indeed, We will take retribution.} [Surat Ad-Dukhan (The Smoke) 44:10-16]
This smoke is torment and the torment must be preceded by a messenger. Allah swt said, {And never would We torture until We sent a messenger} [Surat Al-Isra (The Night Journey) 17:15].
Also, this smoke or torment is a punishment for the denial of a messenger sent for these tortured ones, and he is amongst them as clarified through the verses, {Then they turned away from him and said, “[He was] taught [and is] a madman}.
Therefore, the smoke is from the signs of the rising of Al-Qaim (the Riser/the Mahdi) and this was narrated from the Holy Hadiths, that the smoke is a sign of the Day of Resurrection, and the rise of the Mahdi is the Minor Resurrection. And this smoke is connected to a messenger as clear in the verse. Rather this smoke is due to the denial of the people of the earth of this messenger, so it is a punishment for them.

Point 3: I understand that you are asking for verses from the Qur'an about the Mahdi a.s. because as you put it: "Quran is the only thing i hold dear to, because through that i come back to when i err.. to give me confirmation,affirmation, guidance etc". But in order to understand the Qur'anic verses you have to seek the interpretation of the verses from the ones who are firmly grounded in knowledge, because Allah swt has clearly stated in the Qur'an that there are verses in the Qur'an that are explicit (Muhkam) and there are verses in the Qur'an which are allegorical (Mutashabih) and that we must go back to the ones who are firmly grounded in knowledge in order that they may explain to us what is meant by those allegorical verses, Allah swt says: {It is He Who has revealed unto you the Book wherein are explicit verses—they are the Mother of the Book—and others [which are] allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue that which is allegorical seeking [to cause] dissension and seeking its interpretation. None knows its interpretation except for Allah and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge, they say, We believe therein; All is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really remember.} [Holy Qur'an 3:7] and also He (swt) says: {Rather the Qur'an is clear verses in the hearts of those who were given knowledge. And none reject Our verses except the wrongdoers.} [Holy Quran 29:49]. Also He (swt) says: {...But if they had referred it back to the Messenger or to those of authority among them, then the ones who [can] draw correct conclusions from it would have known it...} [Holy Qur'an 4:83].

So it is clear from the above verses that there are clear verses in the Qur'an and there are allegorical verses, and that the interpretation of the allegorical verses is not known except by the Messenger sawas or the ones who are firmly grounded in knowledge, or those of authority among them, or those who are given knowledge (as underlined above). We believe that the ones who are firmly grounded in knowledge, and those of authority among them, and those who are given knowledge (who are mentioned in the above verses) are the Imams and the Mahdis from the Ahlul Bayt (a.s), and there are a lot of Qur'anic verses in the Qur'an which are interpreted by the Ahlul Bayt a.s to be about the Mahdi a.s. However, I know you don't believe in the doctrine of the Ahlul Bayt a.s., so I will provide you interpretation of Sunni scholars to some Qur'anic verses to be about the Mahdi a.s.:

1) Huzaifa bin Yamani says : "One day I entered in the presence of the Holy Prophet (S.A.W.) and asked regarding the following verse,{And whoever obeys Allah and the Messenger, these are with those upon whom Allah has bestowed favors from among the prophets and the truthful and the martyrs and the good, and those are the best company} [Qur'an 4:69] I asked as to who are the people referred to in this verse?The Holy Prophet (S.A.W.) replied : "0 Huzaifa, the word 'prophets' upon whom Allah has bestowed favours refers to me. I am the first of the prophets who was selected for prophethood (before the creation of the world) and I am the last of them to be sent to the world. The word 'truthful' refers to Ali lbn Abi Talib (AS).When the Almighty Allah sent me as a Prophet, the first one to testify for my Prophethood was Ali (A.S.) The word 'witnesses' implies Hamza and Jafar at Tayyar (A.S). The word 'good' stands for the two masters of the youths of Paradise, Hasan and Hussein (AS.). The 'best company' refers to al-Mahdi in his time" -(Shawahid utTanzeel by Haakim Haskani 1/135)

2) Allah (swt) said in Qur’an: {(O Muhammad!) You are but a Warner, and for every people there exists a Guide} (Qur’an 13:7).
Prophet Muhammad was a Warner, and the Imams of his Ahlul-Bayt were each a Guide for the people of their time. In fact, the following Sunni commentators of Qur’an narrated that the word "Guide”in the above verse was Imam ‘Ali (as):

• Tafsir al-Tabari, v13, p72;
• Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Razi, on the commentary of verse 13:7
• Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthoor, by al-Suyuti, under verse 13:7 of Qur’an
• Kanz al-Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v6, p157
• Noor al-Absar, by al-Shablanji, p70
• Kunooz al-Haqa’iq, by al-Manawi, p42.

But if every people have a guide, then who is the guide in our time? It is the Mahdi a.s.

3) • A leading book in this regard is the book “’Al Mahdi Fil Quran (The Mahdi in Qur'an)” complied by scholar Sayyed Sadiq Shirazi in 1978. This book records 86 Quranic verses that are related to Imam Mahdi (a.s.) in the light of Sunni traditions and reports.

4) • Another book, “Mo'jam AHadith Imam Al Mahdi (a.s.)”, in volume 5, records 265 verses of the Holy Quran regarding Imam Al Mahdi (a.s.) and explains them through traditions from Sunni and Shia chain of narrators.

5) One of the great Sunni scholars Hafiz Jalaluddeen Suyuti Suleymane’ Qundooziye’ Hanafi who lived in 1294 AH has allocated one section in his book Yanabi' Al Mawaddah (volume 3, Section 71) to this topic and has recorded 57 verses of the Holy Quran about Imam Mahdi (a.s.).

6) The verse: {And verily, it is knowledge for the Hour; so do not doubt concerning it, and follow me, this is a straight path} [Holy Qur'an Chapter 43 Verse 61]

* In the Sunni book Faydh AlQadeer, Volume 5, Page 383, Al-Minawi said: "Muqatil said that the verse {And verily, it is knowledge for the Hour} is the Mahdi who shall be in the End Times"

* Also in the Sunni book Al-Mustadrak, Volume 2, Page 448: Al-Hakim related that Jabir may Allah be pleased with him said that the Messenger of Allah Muhammad (sawas) said: ({And verily, it is knowledge for the Hour} The stars are safety for the dwellers of the Heavens, so if the stars go away, the dwellers of the heavens will get what they were promised/were warned about. And I am safety for my companions, as long as I am here, but if I go away they will get what they were promised/were warned about. And my Ahlul Bayt are safety for my nation, so if my Ahlul Bayt go away then my nation will get what they were promised/were warned about) Its Isnad is Sahih...)


Point 4: Qur'an alone is not enough to take your knowledge from. It has the clarification of everything, but it does not have the detailed mentioning of everything. Rather, the detailed mentioning of everything, or the enumeration of everything, is with the Imam of the time, Allah swt says: [and all things We have enumerated in a clear Imam} [Surat Yasin 36:12]. The proof for the fact that not all knowledge is taken from the Qur'an and that you must return to the Hadiths of the Ahlul Bayt (a.s) to get this knowledge is two things:

First Proof: The Qur'an mentions that you must pray, and that prayer is prostration, bowing, reciting Quran, etc. But does it mention how to exactly pray? No. So how do you know how to pray? You go to the Hadiths of the Prophet (sawas). Also for Hajj (pilgrimage), you know the general steps from Qur'an, but the details of it is taken from the Hadiths. Indeed without the Hadiths of Muhammad sawas and the Ahlul Bayt (a.s) it would be impossible to fully understand the message of Allah or the commandments of Allah or the words of Allah!

Second Proof: The Hadith of the two weighty things, which is one of the most important hadiths which all Muslims acknowledge and is present in the most authentic books of all Muslims. By the consensus of Sunni Scholars and Sunni school of thought, The Hadith of Thaqalyn (the two weighty things) is Mutawatir and has been transmitted through chains in which all the transmitters are regarded as Thiqah or as of confirmed trustworthiness and reliability. Following are just two of these Sahih narrations of the tradition as recorded by Muslim and al-­Hakim al-­Nayshaburi in their compilations::

"Zayd said: 'O son of my brother, by God, I have become aged and old and I have forgotten some of what I used to remember from the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be Allah's peace and benedictions. So accept what I narrate to you and as to what I don't, trouble me not regarding it.' Then he said: 'One day the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be Allah's peace and benedictions, addressed us near a pond called Khumm between Makkah and Madinah. He praised God and extolled Him and preached and reminded (us). Then he said, "Lo, O people, I am only a human being and I am about to respond to the messenger of my Lord [i.e. the call of death]. I am leaving behind two weighty things (thaqalayn) among you. The first of the two is the Book of Allah. In it is guidance and light. So hold tight to the Book of Allah and adhere to it." Then he urged and motivated (us) regarding the Book of Allah. Then he said, "And my Ahlul Bayt (family). I urge you to remember God regarding my Ahlul Bayt. I urge you to remember God regarding my Ahlul Bayt. I urge you to remember God regarding my Ahlul Bayt"'(Sahih Muslim, part 7, Kitab fada'il al-­Sahabah [Maktabat wa Matba’at Muhammad ‘Ali Subayh wa Awladuhu: Cairo] pp. 122-123.)

Another version: "Then The Prophet sawas said, 'I am about to answer the call (of death). Verily, I have left behind two weighty things amongst you, one of which is greater than the other. The Book of Allah, the Exalted, and my ‘it rah (family). So watch out how you treat these two after me, for verily they will not separate from each other until they come back to me by the side of the Pond.' Then he said 'Verily, Allah, the Almighty and the Glorious, is my master (mawla) and I am the master of every believer (mu'min).' Then he took ‘Ali by the hand and said, 'This (‘Ali) is the master of whomever I am his master. O God, love whoever loves him and be the enemy of his enemy.'" (al-Imam al-Hafiz Abu ‘Abd Allah al-­Hakim al-­Naysaburi, al-­Mustadrak ‘ala al-Sahihayn [Dar al-Ma’rifah li al-­Tiba’ah wa al-­Nashr: Beirut), vol. iii, pp. 109-110).

(Al-Hakim adds:) "This hadith is Sahih in accordance with the conditions of Sihhah laid down by the Shaykhayn (al-­Bukhari and Muslim), although they have not recorded it in its full length."

So if the Book of Allah was enough alone after the Prophet sawas, then why did he sawas add to it his Ahlul Bayt a.s., rather he even repeated them three times! This is how important following them is! Also in the second narration the Prophet sawas says that the Qur'an and the Ahlul Bayt a.s shall not separate until they gather with the Prophet at the pond (meaning on the Day of Resurrection), so this means that the Qur'an can not be taken alone, you have to take its interpretation from Ahlul Bayt a.s. and them only not from anyone else. Without them, the Qur'an would not be understood and without them each one will interpret the Qur'an according to their own desires! Which is what lead us to the disaster we are living in now like you indicated, everyone is interpreting according to their own understanding even though God swt made it clear to us that the ones who are firmly grounded in knowledge are the only ones who know the interpretation beside the Prophet sawas, and even though the Muslims have all over their books the Hadith where the Prophet sawas before he died he told them to hold tight to the Qur'an and his Ahlul Bayt a.s and that they both shall never separate!

Point 5: As we said, yes, everything is mentioned in Qur'an. But the details are with the Prophet and the Imams (like the example of the prayer, Hajj, etc as mentioned above). So yes the Mahdi is mentioned in Qur'an. Yet the details about him are mentioned by the Prophet (sawas) and the Ahlul Bayt (a.s). Besides the Qur'anic verses mentioned above which prove that some verses are about the Mahdi (and from Sunni sources), I want to add to them this very ultimately important verse where God swt says: {Verily, I am making a Successor on Earth} [Surah 2:30]. In Arabic, the sentence about the making of the Successor on Earth grammatically implies an ongoing action, and not just something that happened once and ended (and not like what some people claim that this verse is only about Adam a.s!), it is an ongoing action, meaning that the Earth can not be void of a Successor of Allah. This is the general clear law. As for the details of the Successor in every time, this is present with the words of Muhammad sawas and his Ahlul Bayt a.s. The following Hadiths prove that the above verse implies that in every age there is a Successor, and it proves that there must be a Mahdi in our time or otherwise the earth will perish. Read carefully:

The Messenger of Allah said: "The stars are amnesty for the inhabitants of the heavens, and if the stars go away (i.e., become non-existent), the inhabitants of the heavens will be destroyed. And my Ahlul-Bayt are amnesty for the inhabitants of the earth, and if my Ahlul-Bayt go away, the inhabitants of the earth will be destroyed."

Sunni references:
• Fadha’il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p671, Tradition #1145
• Dhakha’ir al-Uqba, by Muhibbuddin al-Tabari, p14
• Manaqib Ahmad, and many more such as al-Tabarani, etc.
• l-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p234
• Musnad, Abu Ya’ala, on the authority of Salama Ibn Awka’ in which the wording is: "The stars are amnesty for the inhabitants of the heavens, and my Ahlul-Bayt are the amnesty for my nation."

Also:

The Messenger of Allah said: "The stars help prevent the inhabitants of the earth from being drowned, and my Ahlul-Bayt are the protectors of my community against disputes (in religious matters). Therefore, whichever groups among the Arabs opposes my Ahlul-Bayt, shall be split up by dissensions and will become (a party of) Satan."

Sunni reference:

• al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p149, who said this tradition is authentic (Sahih).
• al-Tabarani, quoting Ibn Abbas
• Also in al-Manaqib Ahmad, as quoted by Muhibbuddin al-Tabari.
• al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p234

Ibn Hajar mentioned the above two traditions as well as many other similar ones under the commentary of the following Qur’anic verse:

{It is not for Allah to punish them while you are among them} (Qur’an 8:33)

Then Ibn Hajar comments that: "Ahlul-Bayt are amnesty for the inhabitant of the earth the same as the Messenger of Allah was amnesty for them.” In the next page, after mentioning a tradition from Sahih Muslim which states that after the end of government of Justice in the last days, just before the day of resurrection Allah sends a wind which takes the souls of all the believers and only wrong-doers will remain when the earthquakes of hour of resurrection occurs. Then Ibn Hajar comments:

"To my opinion, it probably refers to the Ahlul-Bayt, since Allah created this world for the sake of the Prophet, and has made its existence conditional to the existence of his Ahlul-Bayt for they have certain virtues in common with the Prophet as Fakhr al-Razi mentioned, and because the Messenger of Allah said on their virtue that: "O Allah! They are from me and I am from them”since they are a part of him as their mother, Fatimah, was a part of him. Thus they (Ahlul-Bayt) are also amnesty for the earth (similar to what the above verse establishes for the Prophet himself)."

Sunni reference: al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 11, section 1, p234

Point 6: Since as established above, you have to rely on the words of the Prophet sawas and his Ahlul Bayt a.s along with Qur'an to get the commands of Allah and understand them.Having said that, there are six major collections of traditions based on the Sunni standards for verifying the authenticity of a tradition. These six books are: Sahih al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sahih al-Tirmidhi, Sunan Ibn Majah, Sunan Abu Dawud, and Sahih al-Nisa’i. Now I will quote few traditions from these six books along with others to prove that a knowledgeable Sunni brother/sister can NOT deny that:
• al-Mahdi (as) will come in the last days to establish the State of the Divine Justice or a universal govenrment,
• al-Mahdi (as) is from the Ahlul-Bayt of the Prophet (S),
• al-Mahdi (as) is from the progeny of Fatimah (sa), the daughter of the Prophet (S),

1) The Prophet (S) said: "Even if the entire duration of the world’s existence has already been exhausted and only one day is left (before the day of judgment), Allah will expand that day to such a length of time, as to accommodate the kingdom of a person from my Ahlul-Bayt who will be called by my name. He will fill out the earth with peace and justice as it will have been full of injustice and tyranny (by then)."

Sunni References:
• Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v2, p86, v9, pp 74-75
• Sunan Abu Dawud, v2, p7
• Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, pp 84,376; V3, p63
• al-Mustadrak ala al-Sahihayn, by al-Hakim, v4, p557
• Jami’ al-Saghir, by al-Suyuti, pp 2,160
• al-Urful Wardi, by al-Suyuti, p2
• al-Majma’, by al-Tabarani, p217
• Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v9, p144
• Fat’h al-Bari fi Sharh Sahih al-Bukhari, by Ibn Hajar Asqalani, v7, p305
• al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p249
• al-Tathkirah, by al-Qurtubi, p617
• al-Hawi, by al-Suyuti, v2, pp 165-166
• Sharh al-Mawahib al-Ladunniyyah, by al-Zurqani, v5, p348
• Fat’h al-Mugheeth, by al-Sakhawi, v3, p41
• Kanz al-Ummal, v7 P186
• Iqd al-Durar Fi Akhbar al-Mahdi al-Muntadhar, v12, Ch. 1,
• al-Bayan fi Akhbar Sahib al-Zaman, By Ganji al-Shafi’i, Ch. 12
• al-Fusool al-Muhimmah, by Ibn Sabbagh al-Maliki, Ch. 12
• Arjahul Matalib, by Ubaidallah Hindi al-Hanafi, p380
• Muqaddimah, by Ibn Khaldoon, p266
• and also in the works of Ibn Habban, Abu Nua’ym, Ibn Asakir, etc.

2)The Prophet (S) said: "al-Mahdi is one of us, the members of the household (Ahlul-Bayt)."

Sunni reference: Sunan Ibn Majah, v2, Tradition #4085

3) The Prophet (S) said: "The Mahdi will be of my family, of the descendants of Fatimah (the Prophet’s daughter)".

Sunni references:
• Sunan Abu Dawud, English version, Ch. 36, Tradition #4271 (narrated by Umm Salama, the wife of the Prophet)
• Sunan Ibn Majah, v2, Tradition #4086
• al-Nisa’i and al-Bayhaqi, and others as quoted in:
• al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p249

4) The Prophet (S) said: "We the children of Abd al-Muttalib are the Masters of the inhabitants of the heaven: Myself, Hamza , ‘Ali , Ja’far Ibn Abi Talib , al-Hasan, al-Hussein, and al-Mahdi."

Sunni references:
• Sunan Ibn Majah, v2, Tradition #4087
• al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, on the authority of Anas Ibn Malik
• al-Daylami
• al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p245

5) The Prophet (S) said: "We (I and my family) are members of a household that Allah (SWT) has chosen for them the life of the Hereafter over the life of this world; and the members of my household (Ahlul-Bayt) shall suffer a great affliction and they shall be forcefully expelled from their homes after my death; then there will come people from the East carrying black flags, and they will ask for some good to be given to them, but they shall be refused service; as such, they will wage war and emerge victorious, and will be offered that which they desired in the first place, but they will refuse to accept it till they pass it to a man from my family (Ahlul-Bayt) appears to fill the Earth with justice as it has been filled with corruption. So whoever reaches that (time) ought to come to them even if crawling on the ice/snow since among them is the Vice-regent of Allah (Khalifatullah) al-Mahdi."

Sunni references:
• Sunan Ibn Majah, v2, Tradition #4082,
• The History Tabari
• al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 11, section 1, pp 250-251

6) The Prophet sawas said: "In the end of the time, my Ummah will undergo very hard affliction like never before, so that man can not find any way out. Then Allah will make a man from my progeny appear, that is my Ahlul-Bayt, who will fill the earth with justice as it was filled with injustice. The inhabitants of the earth and the inhabitants of the heaven love him. The sky will bring down its water everywhere and the earth will bring all what it can offer and will become green all over."

Sunni references:
• al-Sahih fi al-Hadith, by al-Hakim, as quoted in:
• al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p250

7) In Sahih al-Bukhari, it is narrated that:The Prophet (S) said: "What would be your situation if the Son of Marry (i.e. Jesus) descends upon you and your Imam is among you?"

Sunni reference:
• Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v4, Tradition #658

Point 7: It is a command by Allah in the Qur'an that you leave a written will at the time of your death. There is only one will found for the Prophet Muhammad sawas, and even though it has been in the books for thousands of years, God swt has willed that no one points towards it except the Qa'im Imam Ahmed Alhasan a.s. so that it be a proof upon us, and this is the will:
The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh & his family) said to Ali Ibn Abi Taleb (pbuh) during the night of his death:
“‘O Father of Al Hassan, bring me a leaf and a paper’, and he dictated his will until he came to a position where he said: ‘O Ali, there will be twelve Imams and after them there will be twelve Mahdi’s. You, O Ali, are the first of the twelve Imams, God has named you in his heavens Ali Al Mortada, The Prince of the believers, Grand truthful, the bright Farouq (Judge and differentiating between true and false), the trusted, and the Mahdi (rightly guided). These names may not be truly attributed to other than you. O Ali, you are my guardian on my own family, their living and their dead. My women, whom you maintain shall find me tomorrow, and whom you reject I am acquitted of her. I will not see her and she will not see me on the day of resurrection, and you are the successor (Khalifa) on my nation after me. If the day of death comes to you, hand it over to my son Hassan the very beneficial. Then if the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to my son Al Hussein, the Martyr, the Pure and the Assassinated. If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, the master of the servants and worshipers Ali. If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Mohamed Al Baqir.If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Jaâfar Al Sadiq (the honest).If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Moussa Al Kadhim (The Patient).If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Ali Al Reda.If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Mohamed Al Thiqa (The Trustworthy).If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Ali Al Nasih (The Advisor). If the day death of comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Al Hassan Al Fadil. If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Mohammed the Mandate of the Holy Family of Mohamad Peace be upon them all. These are the twelve Imams. Then there will be twelve Mahdi’s after them. then when Allah receiveth him, let him hand it over to his son, the first of the close ones, he has three names, one like mine and my Father’s: Abdullah (Servant of God), Ahmed, and the third name is The Mahdi (the guided) and he is the first Believer’.”


[center]***[/center]

Point 8: No one is saying that the Imam a.s is independent of God swt (astghfurullah!). What we say is that the Imam is appointed by God - through Muhammad sawas- to guide the people in his time, so accepting what the Imam a.s. says would be accepting what God wants, because this Imam is the one whom God's Prophet sawas commanded us to follow. Questioning what the Imam does or says would be like questioning what the Prophet does or says and therefore would be like questioning what God wants! God wouldn't let Muhammad sawas command us to hold tight to the Ahlul Bayt a.s if they were not infallible! Our need for the Imam is not independent from our need for God! The fact that we need the Imam to interpret for us the Qur'an does not mean that we are not depending on God! Rather God is the One who created this need for us, He swt is the one Who willed that we need an Imam to guide us. It is like this example which someone shared with me before: Any human needs blood to continue his life, and the existence of blood is necessary in every single moment of life. This need is not, in anyway, independent of God. He is God who has created this need for human, and He is the one who has fulfilled it. Similarly the function of Imam over the rest of creatures is not independent of God. So we need the Imam for us to understand our religion, and no matter what he says or does, he is infallible and Muhammad sawas would not have commanded us before he died that we hold tight to the Imams and Mahdis if they would do one mistake! So it is not for us to question them or doubt them, and yes we do submit to them and to their commands, because their command is the Prophet's command which is Allah's command.

Point 9: Even when the Imam a.s rules with abrogated verses from the Qur'an, they are still in Qur'an aren't they? And when he rules with the jurisprudences of the previous prophets, those jurisprudences are still mentioned in the Qur'an aren't they? Plus, Imam Ahmed Alhasan a.s clarified the wisdom of why the Imam a.s will do this, he said:
"And one of the reasons why the Qa'im rules with the previous jurisprudences is because he is the one who executes/implements the religion of Allah in His land, and all the prophets and messengers were glad tidings' givers, and warners, and their jurisprudences did not have their share in being implemented in reality, He the Exalted said {He has ordained for you of religion what He enjoined upon Noah and that which We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what We enjoined upon Abraham and Moses and Jesus - to establish the religion and not be divided therein. Difficult for those who associate others with Allah is that to which you invite them. Allah chooses for Himself whom He wills and guides to Himself whoever turns back [to Him]} [Surat Al-Shura 42:13] The ones whom the religion was ordained for are the Family of Muhammad (a.s) because they are the inheritors of the prophets (a.s), and this verse is about the Qa'im (a.s) especially and it was revealed about him and it means him. " and he also said: "eventhough there is no real contradiciton between what the previous prophets came with and what Muhammad (sawas) came with".

Point 10: Allah swt commanded us to obey three and He put the three in one sentence together: Him (swt), The Prophet (sawas), and the ones in authority among us, He swt says: {O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you} . So do you think, "the ones in authority among us" are the rulers or the Sheikhs or the scholars like some Muslims think now? Would Allah swt attach to Himself fallible rulers or fallible scholars? Would He swt make obedience to Him the same as obedience to fallible human beings? What if the one in authority among us does something wrong or commits a sin or gives a wrong Fatwa like the crazy Fatwas we hear nowadays, and then I obey him, what would I tell God on the Day of Judgment? Would I say, "But God, You commanded me to follow whoever is in authority among us!" Would God swt excuse me or forgive me? Of course not. Because the ones in authority in this verse are indeed not fallible human beings, otherwise God swt would not have attached them to Himself. However, like Ahlul Bayt a.s. mentioned, the ones in authority in this verse are the Ahlul Bayt a.s., the ones the Prophet sawas commanded us to hold tight to like mentioned in the above Hadiths.

So if you have come to believe that the Qa'im a.s is the Imam of your time and the Successor of Allah on this Earth in this time and He is the offspring of the Prophet sawas and from his Ahlul Bayt a.s., then you will believe also - like Ahlul Bayt a.s. said - that he is the one in authority over you, and therefore you will have to obey him like Allah swt commanded you in the Qur'an. So no matter what he does or says, you have to be certain that he is only speaking what God wants, and that he is only implementing the Religion of Allah on this Earth like Allah swt desires. And then finally you will submit to the fact that Allah swt must be worshiped as He wills, and not as we imagine nor as we will.

And all praises belong to Allah the Lord of the Worlds.

Please do not hesitate to ask if you have further questions. I apologize for the long post, but I was trying my best to answer you and I tried to summarize as much as I could.

May Allah swt open your heart to the Light and may you see the truth which is clearer than the sun in the middle of the day, by the truth and right of Muhammad (sawas) and his purified Ahlul Bayt (a.s) the Imams and the Mahdis

Peace, mercy, and blessings of Allah be upon you.
Last edited by Norhan El Kirsh on Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#61948
spiritualhumility wrote:1. if the mahdi does exist, ...first if anyone can please show where Allaah speaks off the coming of the mahdi a.s, thats out of respect if they do exist, just like the gog and mogog, is clear in the quran as it is an event that will effect many, hence why the same position of importance is not given to this great event, why are not the people warned of its coming or given good news depending ofcourse which side of belief one is standing on..


Assalamu alaykum waRahmatullah waBaraktuh,

I have come across the following two traditions from Sunni books, about a verse in Qur'an which is related to the Ahlul Bayt (a.s) and the Mahdi (a.s), so I am going to add them to the list of verses I have mentioned in the above post.

The verse is: {And verily, it is knowledge for the Hour; so do not doubt concerning it, and follow me, this is a straight path} [Holy Qur'an Chapter 43 Verse 61]

* In the Sunni book Faydh AlQadeer, Volume 5, Page 383, Al-Minawi said: "Muqatil said that the verse {And verily, it is knowledge for the Hour} is the Mahdi who shall be in the End Times"

* Also in the Sunni book Al-Mustadrak, Volume 2, Page 448: Al-Hakim related that Jabir may Allah be pleased with him said that the Messenger of Allah Muhammad (sawas) said: ({And verily, it is knowledge for the Hour} The stars are safety for the dwellers of the Heavens, so if the stars go away, the dwellers of the heavens will get what they were promised/were warned about. And I am safety for my companions, as long as I am here, but if I go away they will get what they were promised/were warned about. And my Ahlul Bayt are safety for my nation, so if my Ahlul Bayt go away then my nation will get what they were promised/were warned about) Its Isnad is Sahih...)
#61952
Norhan El Kirsh wrote:
spiritualhumility wrote:1. if the mahdi does exist, ...first if anyone can please show where Allaah speaks off the coming of the mahdi a.s, thats out of respect if they do exist, just like the gog and mogog, is clear in the quran as it is an event that will effect many, hence why the same position of importance is not given to this great event, why are not the people warned of its coming or given good news depending ofcourse which side of belief one is standing on..


Assalamu alaykum waRahmatullah waBaraktuh,

I have come across the following two traditions from Sunni books, about a verse in Qur'an which is related to the Ahlul Bayt (a.s) and the Mahdi (a.s), so I am going to add them to the list of verses I have mentioned in the above post.

The verse is: {And verily, it is knowledge for the Hour; so do not doubt concerning it, and follow me, this is a straight path} [Holy Qur'an Chapter 43 Verse 61]

* In the Sunni book Faydh AlQadeer, Volume 5, Page 383, Al-Minawi said: "Muqatil said that the verse {And verily, it is knowledge for the Hour} is the Mahdi who shall be in the End Times"

* Also in the Sunni book Al-Mustadrak, Volume 2, Page 448: Al-Hakim related that Jabir may Allah be pleased with him said that the Messenger of Allah Muhammad (sawas) said: ({And verily, it is knowledge for the Hour} The stars are safety for the dwellers of the Heavens, so if the stars go away, the dwellers of the heavens will get what they were promised/were warned about. And I am safety for my companions, as long as I am here, but if I go away they will get what they were promised/were warned about. And my Ahlul Bayt are safety for my nation, so if my Ahlul Bayt go away then my nation will get what they were promised/were warned about) Its Isnad is Sahih...)


Salam

I think the questioner was asking why, if the mahdi is true, did Allah not mention it clearly in the Quran? Gog And magog are mentioned but not the mahdi? not some obscure reference claimed by a (possibly fabricated) hadith, clearly mention this if it is true and so important?

Allah mentions in Quran things seemingly 'much' smaller than this, so why not mention the mahdi and all these events?
#61953
Asalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh

Jesus a.s was also not mentioned directly in the torah,
there were only symbols and signs for the Children of Israel to recognize him.
(For example Jesaja 7:14)

Otherwise it wouldn't be a test of faith in the unseen anymore.

[sure Fatir ayat 42-43]
As it is, they [who are averse to the truth often] swear by God with their most solemn oaths that if a warner should ever come to them, they would follow his guidance better than any of the communities [of old had followed the warner sent to them]: but now that a warner has come unto them, [his call] but increases their aversion, their arro­gant behaviour on earth, and their devising of evil [arguments against God’s messages]. Yet [in the end,] such evil scheming will engulf none but its authors: and can they expect anything but [to be made to go] the way of those [sinners] of olden times? Thus [it is]: no change wilt thou ever find in God’s way; yea, no deviation wilt thou ever find in God’s way!

SadaqAllahu alyyul azeem
Wa alhamdulillahi rabbil alameen
#61957
Muhammed Yusuf wrote:Asalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh

Jesus a.s was also not mentioned directly in the torah,
there were only symbols and signs for the Children of Israel to recognize him.
(For example Jesaja 7:14)

Otherwise it wouldn't be a test of faith in the unseen anymore.

[sure Fatir ayat 42-43]
As it is, they [who are averse to the truth often] swear by God with their most solemn oaths that if a warner should ever come to them, they would follow his guidance better than any of the communities [of old had followed the warner sent to them]: but now that a warner has come unto them, [his call] but increases their aversion, their arro­gant behaviour on earth, and their devising of evil [arguments against God’s messages]. Yet [in the end,] such evil scheming will engulf none but its authors: and can they expect anything but [to be made to go] the way of those [sinners] of olden times? Thus [it is]: no change wilt thou ever find in God’s way; yea, no deviation wilt thou ever find in God’s way!

SadaqAllahu alyyul azeem
Wa alhamdulillahi rabbil alameen


salam

Sorry bro you're way off. Jesus was mentioned and prophesied numerous times in the torah/old testament as the coming 'Messiah'. There is no mention by name of the Mahdi in the Quran, not one, so the original Question remains

"if the mahdi is true, why did Allah not mention it clearly in the Quran? Gog And Magog are mentioned but not the Mahdi? not some obscure reference claimed by a (possibly fabricated) hadith, clearly mention this if it is true and so important? Allah mentions in Quran things seemingly 'much' smaller than this, so why not mention the mahdi and all these events?"

Prophet Muhammad saws was mentioned by name and title and description in the christian scriptures, Isa was mentioned by title numerous times in the Jewish scriptures, so why no mention of the Mahdi in the 'QURAN' if he is as big as we say/believe he is "the saviour of mankind?" surely Allah would mention this wouldn't he? he mentions the coming victory of the Romans (a small in comparison event) but not the biggest persona of the end of the world events?

Its a fair Question that i don't think there is a good enough answer for. if someone 'can' answer this (without dancing around the actual question and answer the 'actual' question) i would love to read it. if there is no genuine answer its a problem no?

Also the above Ayat is out of context regarding this debate, that is for a people who a 'Prophet' had come to, who had been told was coming (as all prophets were foretold) and who provided miracles of some sort as all prophets were provided in one way or another.
#61962
SlaveOfAllah wrote:
Salam

I think the questioner was asking why, if the mahdi is true, did Allah not mention it clearly in the Quran? Gog And magog are mentioned but not the mahdi? not some obscure reference claimed by a (possibly fabricated) hadith, clearly mention this if it is true and so important?

Allah mentions in Quran things seemingly 'much' smaller than this, so why not mention the mahdi and all these events?


Walaikum assalam waRahmtullah waBarakatuh,
O Allah send Your prayers upon Muhammad and the Family of Muhammad the Imams and the Mahdis

Like you said:
"Allah mentions in Quran things seemingly 'much' smaller than this, so why not mention the mahdi and all these events?"


So let me ask you this, how about prayer? Isn't prayer one of the five pillars of Islam? Why would Allah (swt) not mention to us in the Qur'an how to pray? As you said, Allah mentions in Qur'an things much smaller than this! Much smaller than one of the pillars of Islam! So if Allah mentions things much smaller in Qur'an, then why did Allah (swt) not tell us in detail how to pray since prayer is very important and one of the pillars of Islam?! Why did Allah swt leave us to figure out how to pray from Hadiths? Which resulted in having different ways to pray within the same sect of Islam (Sunni Islam for example).

Allah wants us to follow two things after the Prophet's (sawas) death; the Qur'an AND the Ahlul Bayt of the Prophet (refer to the third post I made in this thread: the hadith of the two weighty things), if Qur'an alone was enough, then the Prophet sawas would have just said follow the Qur'an after my death! But no, he sawas commanded us to hold tight after his death to the Qur'an and his Ahlul Bayt, and he repeated his Ahlul Bayt three times, and that is because we can not understand the Allegorical verses in the Qur'an except if we seek the interpretation of the ones who are firmly grounded in knowledge, according to Allah's swt words Himself! (refer to the third post I made in this thread to get the verses where Allah swt mentions that). If you do not want to take the Hadiths from the ones whom Allah swt and His prophet sawas commanded us to take Hadiths from (the Ahlul Bayt of the Prophet), then look at the Hadiths about the Mahdi that are mentioned in the Sunni books, some of which I mentioned above, and many more are there for you to find easily if you do some research.

So just like Allah swt willed that we do not know how to pray (which, I repeat, is one of the pillars of Islam) except from Hadiths (specifically the Hadiths of the Ahlul Bayt a.s), He also swt willed that we do not know about the Mahdi (as well as where he is mentioned in the Qur'an) except from Hadiths.
Last edited by Norhan El Kirsh on Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:35 am, edited 5 times in total.
#61963
SlaveOfAllah wrote:
Muhammed Yusuf wrote:Asalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh

Jesus a.s was also not mentioned directly in the torah,
there were only symbols and signs for the Children of Israel to recognize him.
(For example Jesaja 7:14)

Otherwise it wouldn't be a test of faith in the unseen anymore.

[sure Fatir ayat 42-43]
As it is, they [who are averse to the truth often] swear by God with their most solemn oaths that if a warner should ever come to them, they would follow his guidance better than any of the communities [of old had followed the warner sent to them]: but now that a warner has come unto them, [his call] but increases their aversion, their arro­gant behaviour on earth, and their devising of evil [arguments against God’s messages]. Yet [in the end,] such evil scheming will engulf none but its authors: and can they expect anything but [to be made to go] the way of those [sinners] of olden times? Thus [it is]: no change wilt thou ever find in God’s way; yea, no deviation wilt thou ever find in God’s way!

SadaqAllahu alyyul azeem
Wa alhamdulillahi rabbil alameen


salam

Sorry bro you're way off. Jesus was mentioned and prophesied numerous times in the torah/old testament as the coming 'Messiah'. There is no mention by name of the Mahdi in the Quran, not one, so the original Question remains

"if the mahdi is true, why did Allah not mention it clearly in the Quran? Gog And Magog are mentioned but not the Mahdi? not some obscure reference claimed by a (possibly fabricated) hadith, clearly mention this if it is true and so important? Allah mentions in Quran things seemingly 'much' smaller than this, so why not mention the mahdi and all these events?"

Prophet Muhammad saws was mentioned by name and title and description in the christian scriptures, Isa was mentioned by title numerous times in the Jewish scriptures, so why no mention of the Mahdi in the 'QURAN' if he is as big as we say/believe he is "the saviour of mankind?" surely Allah would mention this wouldn't he? he mentions the coming victory of the Romans (a small in comparison event) but not the biggest persona of the end of the world events?

Its a fair Question that i don't think there is a good enough answer for. if someone 'can' answer this (without dancing around the actual question and answer the 'actual' question) i would love to read it. if there is no genuine answer its a problem no?

Also the above Ayat is out of context regarding this debate, that is for a people who a 'Prophet' had come to, who had been told was coming (as all prophets were foretold) and who provided miracles of some sort as all prophets were provided in one way or another.


I will answer you on that but please can you tell me which book by Imam Ahmed Alhasan a.s. have you read?

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